Solar/wind + battery storage is cheaper than natural gas and a hell of a lot cleaner. It makes no sense to go for a more expensive, dirtier form of energy.
How exactly is the production of batteries cleaner and cheaper than the production of natural gas?
You make the batteries once, and the pollution due to production is spread over the 10-15 year lifetime of the battery. During that time gigawatt hours of clean power sloshes in and out of them. This in contrast to having to produce enough gas to make all of those gigawatt hours once, then throw the gas away as co2 and get more, along with the attendant pollution.
Batteries have infinite energy now? No storage issues due to electrical surges, heat, cold, or anything else that makes batteries sub optimal? While seemingly by magic, mining rare earth minerals spreads its environmental impact over 10-15 years of the lifetime of the battery with 0 negative impact to the area the mine is located?
Oh wait… None of that is true so I guess you can try again.
I have no idea what you are trying to say. Batteries have an environmental impact, but so does fracking for natural gas. You have the impact up front making a battery, but charging it with renewables does not have continued environmental impact. But if you use gas, you’re going to have to use an awful lot of it over that time period to offset the clean power you’re able to use when you have a battery. And that gas has a very high environmental impact, continually, over that entire time period.
I didn’t say batteries have NO impact, but they have less impact than continually mining and burning fossil fuels.
The fact that you believe renewable energy sources have no environmental impact demonstrates to me the need to no longer speak with you. My brain can take only so much ignorance and green washing is my line today.
It really is too bad about the weak life cycle, poor charge/discharge rate, and incredibly low voltage that begin the story of “Why don’t we just use sodium ion batteries?” and place it directly in the “tragedy” section of the book store.
Why are people so mad that batteries are better than dead dinosaur farts? What is the weird obsession with burning ooze and gasses from mother earth? We have better options?
Why are people so mad that batteries are better than dead dinosaur farts? What is the weird obsession with burning ooze and gasses from mother earth? We have better options?
Does it hurt being this ignorant or is it truly as blissful as they say?
The fact that you don’t understand battery materials are pulled from the ground in much the same way that oil and gas is speaks volumes about value of your opinions.
Are you under the impression that we use NMC batteries for grid energy storage?? LOL
Sure is weird how you think you are owning me here while ignoring the fact that all batteries have an environmental impact and Lithium is one of the worst when it comes to battery components that are incredibly costly to the environments where it is mined, which is the main component in batteries used for grid storage.
Since you are all knowing, explain to me exactly how deep earth mining is less costly and better for the environment than deep earth drilling.
Easy, just compare the amount of pollution required to make a battery and a solar panel with the amount of pollution required to extract and burn fossil fuels for the equivalent power output over the duration of the renewable’s working lifetime.
Oh, and don’t forget. Fossil fuels are useless without an engine to burn them, so you need to account for those infrastructure costs as well.
Easy, just compare the amount of pollution required to make a battery and a solar panel with the amount of pollution required to extract and burn fossil fuels for the equivalent power output over the duration of the renewable’s working lifetime.
Typically not by injecting toxic carcinogens into the ground to do so, like we do with fracking.
Also I’ve not heard of any strip mining activities that turn a town’s only water supply into something that’s flammable, but I perhaps missed that?
Or the ongoing incidents of child and adult cancer caused by this itty bitty little toxic waste issue.
No need to flat out lie in order to make a point.
Unless you want to honestly double down on the “I am so ignorant that I honestly believe mines do not contaminate surrounding areas” card you should take off for the day, rest up, and try again tomorrow bud.
Not your friend for one. For the other, I don’t need to “bring the receipts” to demonstrate that mining and battery production is not good for the environment.
Anyone who needs that is too mentally feeble to be a part of this discussion and should recuse themselves for their own safety.
Let me ask you this since you do not appear to be arguing in good faith and are using strawmen: do you believe humans are most of the cause of climate change?
Mostly because natural gas is a one and done thing when it is used. Batteries can be recycled. Production of natural gas is largely done through racking which destroys the groundwater. While batteries often require mining (excluding mechanical ones), they often can be broken down and reused in new batteries. And of course there is the greenhouse gas emissions from methane that are horrible. Methane is extremely leaky. Methane usage emits about as much greenhouse gas emissions as coal does.
I enjoy that you are making a strawman. Nobody ever said batteries have no negatives. You asked how they were cleaner than natural gas. I answered. Sorry that the answer hurt your feelings.
How exactly is the production of batteries cleaner and cheaper than the production of natural gas?
You make the batteries once, and the pollution due to production is spread over the 10-15 year lifetime of the battery. During that time gigawatt hours of clean power sloshes in and out of them. This in contrast to having to produce enough gas to make all of those gigawatt hours once, then throw the gas away as co2 and get more, along with the attendant pollution.
Batteries have infinite energy now? No storage issues due to electrical surges, heat, cold, or anything else that makes batteries sub optimal? While seemingly by magic, mining rare earth minerals spreads its environmental impact over 10-15 years of the lifetime of the battery with 0 negative impact to the area the mine is located?
Oh wait… None of that is true so I guess you can try again.
I have no idea what you are trying to say. Batteries have an environmental impact, but so does fracking for natural gas. You have the impact up front making a battery, but charging it with renewables does not have continued environmental impact. But if you use gas, you’re going to have to use an awful lot of it over that time period to offset the clean power you’re able to use when you have a battery. And that gas has a very high environmental impact, continually, over that entire time period.
I didn’t say batteries have NO impact, but they have less impact than continually mining and burning fossil fuels.
The fact that you believe renewable energy sources have no environmental impact demonstrates to me the need to no longer speak with you. My brain can take only so much ignorance and green washing is my line today.
Ok. Have a nice day.
Sodium batteries require very little rare earths in comparison to lithium batteries.
It really is too bad about the weak life cycle, poor charge/discharge rate, and incredibly low voltage that begin the story of “Why don’t we just use sodium ion batteries?” and place it directly in the “tragedy” section of the book store.
Why are people so mad that batteries are better than dead dinosaur farts? What is the weird obsession with burning ooze and gasses from mother earth? We have better options?
Does it hurt being this ignorant or is it truly as blissful as they say?
The fact that you don’t understand battery materials are pulled from the ground in much the same way that oil and gas is speaks volumes about value of your opinions.
Once. They are pulled from the ground once. After which they are essentially infinitely recyclable.
Oil/gas is extracted then used a single time and it’s gone.
Nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing, is “infinitely recyclable”. Literally defies physics.
Lets also not forget that oil is recyclable.
Are you under the impression that we use NMC batteries for grid energy storage?? LOL
Sure is weird how you think you are owning me here while ignoring the fact that all batteries have an environmental impact and Lithium is one of the worst when it comes to battery components that are incredibly costly to the environments where it is mined, which is the main component in batteries used for grid storage.
“LOL”
Do you want the math or would you prefer less reading and more pictures?
Nothing like an ignoramus to try and make someone else feel stupid for asking a question.
Since you are all knowing, explain to me exactly how deep earth mining is less costly and better for the environment than deep earth drilling.
Or did you think we just magically pull batteries from thin air at 0 cost?
Easy, just compare the amount of pollution required to make a battery and a solar panel with the amount of pollution required to extract and burn fossil fuels for the equivalent power output over the duration of the renewable’s working lifetime.
Oh, and don’t forget. Fossil fuels are useless without an engine to burn them, so you need to account for those infrastructure costs as well.
If it is so easy I am waiting.
In the US, the major source of natgas is now fracking.
And uh, fracking is about the most gross extraction method for anything you can dig out of the ground.
Cool story. How do we pull rare earth minerals, needed for batteries, from the ground?
Typically not by injecting toxic carcinogens into the ground to do so, like we do with fracking.
Also I’ve not heard of any strip mining activities that turn a town’s only water supply into something that’s flammable, but I perhaps missed that?
Or the ongoing incidents of child and adult cancer caused by this itty bitty little toxic waste issue.
No need to flat out lie in order to make a point.
Unless you want to honestly double down on the “I am so ignorant that I honestly believe mines do not contaminate surrounding areas” card you should take off for the day, rest up, and try again tomorrow bud.
My friend, you are the one who is saying batteries are somehow dirtier than natural gas.
Bring the receipts or head on out, we are getting bored.
Not your friend for one. For the other, I don’t need to “bring the receipts” to demonstrate that mining and battery production is not good for the environment.
Anyone who needs that is too mentally feeble to be a part of this discussion and should recuse themselves for their own safety.
Let me ask you this since you do not appear to be arguing in good faith and are using strawmen: do you believe humans are most of the cause of climate change?
Mostly because natural gas is a one and done thing when it is used. Batteries can be recycled. Production of natural gas is largely done through racking which destroys the groundwater. While batteries often require mining (excluding mechanical ones), they often can be broken down and reused in new batteries. And of course there is the greenhouse gas emissions from methane that are horrible. Methane is extremely leaky. Methane usage emits about as much greenhouse gas emissions as coal does.
I enjoy how much effort it takes to ignore how batteries are produced in order to argue for them in a comparison with natural gas.
I enjoy that you are making a strawman. Nobody ever said batteries have no negatives. You asked how they were cleaner than natural gas. I answered. Sorry that the answer hurt your feelings.