Pfft.
This assumes that the protesters won’t vote for Harris come election time.
Protests are important - especially obnoxious, inconvenient ones. If Harris and the general public can’t ignore the protesters, Harris is more likely to act on the protested issue instead of sidestepping it.
unless an arms embargo is put into place before the election, I will not be voting for harris. if the PSL is on the ballot in my state, I will be voting for them, otherwise it’ll probably be Stein. I’m sure I’m far from the only person with this opinion.
unfortunately, with her responses to Palestinian protestors at her campaign events (the whole “I’m speaking” debacle), and the administration averaging about 1-2 arms shipments to Israel a day since October, I don’t see her campaign walking back their stance and imposing an embargo, so she’s probably not getting my vote.
what does this have to do with being anti-genocide?
It has nothing to do with it. It’s a straw-man argument. You could do the same kind of misdirection by comparing the number of US-related foreign conflicts under Trump vs Obama + Biden, and that wouldn’t prove anything either. The fact remains that a large portion of Kamala’s constituency wants an arms embargo and those people are being completely ignored.
Instead we get these astro-turf memes. Political marketing sure is wild this cycle
We actually won Florida. Scalia bum rushed the SCOTUS to shut down the count before we found out. Helped along by Roger Stone and that republican State Elections lady.
If only Al Gore had known there are zero consequences for telling everyone to trash the Congressional building.
They’re also protesting the republicans, but don’t let facts get in the way of you trying to tell everyone that you’re superior to people protesting genocide. 😉
Yeah I’m sure repeatedly saying that Trump is gonna be worse over and over is gonna win over the Palestinian-Americans who’s families are still in the region and will continue to be at risk for being killed if nothing is done. And with everyone saying this election will be close leaving those votes on the table and just expecting them to follow along cause at least the Democrats won’t directly get involved seems like a bad strategy.
Let them vote Trump then see what happens
They’re not voting for Trump, they’re just not gonna vote because pretty understandably they don’t want to vote for someone who is gonna use the taxes they pay to kill people they know and care about.
They’re not voting for trump, they’re just not gonna vote.
So voting for trump but trying to justify it by being shit at math.
Signed, a Palestinian America who’s grandfather came to the US fleeing the fucking Nakba.
The anti-genocide protestors are pressuring the Democratic party, they are Democratic voters. Only the Democratic party has the opportunity to change policy on Israel. By pivoting and forcing conditional military aid / arms embargo, they can secure an actual ceasefire.
The people who are mad at the protestors, acting as if they’re doing it for selfish reasons or secretly want trump to win, are being completely disingenuous. If they cared about ending the genocide in Gaza, they would also be advocating for the end of US directly funding Israel’s crimes against humanity, but instead they’d rather complain about the protestors.
Pressuring by threatening to let trump win.
The guy who handed East Jerusalem West Bank and Golan Heights to the enemy.
That’s what they’re threatening to use as leverage to “pressure” an establishment that’s supposedly in bed with the right on this.
People who are threatening to not vote are either zionist agents, or morons that are just as good as zionist agents. Either way, they are of less than no help to my people’s struggle.
What is happening is bad, what these “allies” are backing their threat with is so much worse than what is currently happening it can literally only come from a place of not even having been paying attention to the last decade of events playing out in the creeping annexation of Palestine, nevermind the full picture context of what is playing out.
The best help they can be is as voters for Harris and down ballot dems. As boring and in conflict with their fantasy of being in a big march like MLK or dictating the revolution from the bathroom on their phones like Marat as that is.
I share your frustration with the Democratic party, the Republican party, and even American politics as a whole. At least as much as I can, I don’t have the same kind of lived experience as someone who’s directly connected to victims of western Imperialism. I’ve only spent the last couple years learning about the real history of Palestine.
If you think the BDS Movement and the Uncommitted Movement are your enemies, I genuinely hope you reconsider. They are the spearhead of pro-palestinian support that has made massive gains in even just the last few months. The pressure is mounting. These kinds of non-violent protests for the liberation of people long oppressed is exactly the kind of protests MLK envisioned and practiced to create genuine change.
I first learned about Palestine from Hasan Piker, here he goes into what the Uncommitted movement in detail. I hope you give it a watch, I think it might change your mind
Get fucked zionist.
Wait, you really think Israel should not exist?
Since you are asking - Israel, and every zionist, whether Jewish, Christian or Muslim (yes they do exist) should be wiped off the planet.
Wow. That is pretty fucked up.
Fuck you. What’s fucked up is the absolute shredding of babies with zionist bombs. And the starving and denial of medical treatment of the babies and toddlers you DON’T get with your bombs. I won’t even get into what you do to the older children and the adults. Everyone knows. I wish for all of you to suffer in the fiery pits of hell for all eternity and it cannot happen soon enough.
Seriously, from the bottom of my heart, fuck you.
Genocidal apartheid ethnostates should not exist.
Above all else I’m pro-civilian. When October 7th happened I was pro-civilian. When Israel began indiscriminately bombing Gaza killing 3-4 civilians for every Hamas in the best case scenario I was pro-civilian then, too.
Naturally if you have a paper-cut in one place and an arterial bleed elsewhere your time is best served focusing on the arterial bleed.
Does this change the fact that I think it’s silly to protest Biden and Harris directly and misses the bigger picture of this election relative to the risk of wedge-driving Democrats and letting the guy in who won’t even try to stop tie bleeding? No.
Anyone advocating for Palestinians is better served finding pro-Israeli voters and showing them the brutality of the IDF. When you then see a movement in the public polls, you’ll see a movement in policy & platform.
Anyone advocating for Palestinians is better served finding pro-Israeli voters and showing them the brutality of the IDF.
I worry that showing the brutality of the IDF would actually encourage those voters to double down because they like what they see. Perhaps a better way is show the humanity of the Palestinian civilians.
I think PBS NewsHour has been doing a stellar job at this. They recently highlighted the father who lost his twins and his wife in a bombing. They then interviewed an American pediatrician who volunteered in Gaza. It certainly humanizes them.
I’d also remind them that IDF is so incompetent that they’ve killed more aid workers in this conflict than any conflict previously… Even when there is directly coordination with IDF command as instructed. They’ve even killed their own hostages who had their hands raised, unarmed, and with a white flag.
It’s astounding. I’d never really fallen for the “IDF MOST MORAL ARMY IN THE WORLD” shit ever since I became interested in politics as a teen, but I took it for granted that they were at least somewhat competent, if gruesome. Turns out, no, they’re both gruesomely immoral AND gruesomely incompetent.
Every time I see IDF officials talk I get big-time Kremlin rhetoric vibes. Now I’m not here defending Hamas in any capacity, but I just tire of IDF being elevated as “the good guys.” If they’re the good guys, then their standards should have been higher. Instead, just bomb a densely-populated building, killing scores of innocents and just say (without proof), “Oh well there was a high-value Hamas target so it’s all good.” They pulled the trigger and said that one target was more valuable than the dead children they knew they would kill.
Most moral people would let 9 guilty men walk to avoid harming a single innocent
Exactly!!
This is the foundation for which all Western Judicial systems are built on: Justice Blackstone’s, “Better that 10 guilty persons escape than 1 innocent suffer.”
… And also the reason why these Prisoner Swaps with Russia make complete moral sense.
Yeah, I despise Hamas and won’t mourn the passing of the shitheads, but Israel’s conduct in murdering Palestinian civilians has been nothing short of abominable.
And unlikely to end Hamas, for that matter.
And unlikely to end Hamas, for that matter.
This is what I don’t get. Even if we take them at their word that they’re finishing this for good, did they not learn a goddamned thing from 20 years of failed US military intervention attempting the same thing? Like… here I am just a Palestinian living in a slum exacerbated by blockades just trying to raise a family and unfortunately for me Hamas now controls the neighborhood I live in and I can’t do shit about it because they’re also being supported by outside nation-states no less. On the flip-side, it seems they’re the only marginal deterrent from IDF simply annexing and bulldozing my house… Then Hamas does something stupid; but then Israel claiming to be the good guys levels my apartment and kills my mother, wife, and kids…
Yeah, you bet I would radicalize after that.
So ultimately, the IDF is further destabilizing the region, not even addressing the root causes of extremism, and sowing further October 7ths down the road when all these orphans grow up.
Worst part is, US attempts at counter-insurgency were largely destroyed by outside factors (namely, the fact that we managed to piss off half the world, and the world was right in being pissed, in invading Iraq after having acquired near-infinite goodwill simply by suffering 9/11). We developed fairly effective COIN strategies - and what’s more, we offered experienced advisers in urban COIN specifically to Israel in the immediate aftermath of October 7th.
Our advisers left, frustrated, inside of a fucking week. Because the IDF had no interest in pursuing a counter-insurgency strategy. They were interested in pursuing their fucking old world blood feud.
They are absolutely NOT the good guys. Israel is having a smaller scale preview of what we’d see if we had the same scenario happen under a Trump presidency. We should try to curb their worst instincts, but you have to win the bloody election first to do it, and somehow account for the fact that the majority of Americans do not give a shit about Palestine.
The last poll I saw on the issue, is that ranking issues from most important to least, Palestine ranked around #9. Behind everything from Immigration, Economy, Women’s rights etc. And opposing them is one of the most well connected, well funded special interest groups that exist in the US today, in a country that loves money in politics so much that we legalized bribery.
It’s not an accident that some of the most vocal Pro-Palestinian voices in congress were primaried.
In that political climate, the best you can do is to do harm mitigation and make sure Republicans aren’t in the driver’s seat come 2025.
Yes, I’m being pragmatic. And I’d fucking hope you would be too, when millions of lives are at stake. I donated to Palestine for 20 years. Even back when I was living on a shoestring budget while I was in college. Do the feel good shit AFTER 11/20. I’ll be right there with you.
And for the love of god, vote.
Nobody gives a shit about nonvoters in this country. If you wanted to actually affect policy, a half a dozen congressmen that are willing to throw a wrench in things to get their way goes a LOT further than useless yammering about how you’re not going to vote because ‘both sides are bad’.
A couple of Blue Dogs managed to derail single payer healthcare. We could absolutely do the same for the Palestinian issue, if you could be bothered to get off your ass and vote.
Since being primarily concerned about the genocide is that unpopular of a position then why are you so concerned? If Harris made the decision that those voters are not as important to her then that’s that. You can’t have it both ways no matter how many self-righteous posts you make online.
Since being primarily concerned about the genocide is that unpopular of a position then why are you so concerned?
Because elections in this country are often decided on fractions of a percentage point.
Sounds like you don’t actually care about what happens and just want to feel self righteous and make some noise. So… the exact kind of person I had in mind making this.
You couldn’t argue on the merits, so you went with, “Haha, sure, I’m doing bad things, but it won’t matter so why do you care?”
Do you need me to spell it out for you to make it really obvious how dumb that argument is? Or were you just trying to be facetious?
